Preferred Bank Q4 2025 Earnings Call - Profits stay high, margin squeezed by sticky deposit costs and a ~ $120M classified relationship
Summary
Preferred Bank posted healthy results in Q4 2025, delivering $34.8 million of quarterly net income, $2.79 per share, and $434 million for the full year, or $10.41 per share. Management says profitability ranks among the industry’s top tier, but the narrative is two-sided: loan demand and originations are picking up, yet net interest margin is under pressure after Fed cuts because deposit costs have not fallen as fast.
The quarter featured meaningful portfolio actions and one credit wobble. Management sold two OREO properties for a modest net gain, booked a $4.3 million provision, and reclassified a large multi-loan commercial relationship into criticized status, which lifted criticized assets by roughly $97 million. Management expects deposit competition to remain fierce, is cautious on buybacks and M&A, and is budgeting for a higher loan growth cadence in 2026 while keeping a close eye on resolution of the downgraded relationship over the coming quarters.
Key Takeaways
- Q4 net income was $34.8 million, or $2.79 per diluted share; full-year 2025 net income was $434 million, or $10.41 per share.
- Management claims 2025 profitability is among the banking industry’s top tier, but warns of near-term margin pressure.
- Net interest margin slid into December, with December NIM at 3.66%, reflecting the full effect of the December Fed rate cut.
- Deposit costs in December were 3.17%, and management says deposit costs are proving stubborn, falling roughly 6 to 7 basis points per month.
- Preferred Bank has a roughly 70% floating-rate loan portfolio; the December cuts cleared floors on only about $150–$200 million of loans.
- Deposit beta on interest-bearing accounts was about 40% in the quarter; management expects continued competitive pressure and roughly five to six basis points per month of further repricing as CDs roll.
- Q4 loan growth was $182 million, over 12% for the quarter; deposit growth was $115 million, up 7.4% for the quarter. Year-to-date loan and deposit growth were ~7.3% and ~7.2%, respectively.
- A large, multi-loan relationship (discussed in calls as roughly $120–123 million across nine loans) was moved into classified status, driving a about $97 million increase in criticized assets. Management says the borrower is behind on payments and is pursuing refinancing; the bank is first lien and believes collateral values remain reasonable.
- One multifamily non-accrual loan of about $19.5 million carries a recent appraisal of roughly $49 million, per management. The bank says market values are stable, not a 2008-style dislocation.
- Provision for loan losses was $4.3 million in the quarter, driven by loan growth and specific reserves tied to the criticized relationship.
- Management adjusted reserve methodology, raising a Q-factor for real estate by five basis points; Q-factor components now account for about 42.5% of the allowance, and the bank believes reserves are adequate.
- The bank sold two OREO properties in Q4 for a combined net gain reported in non-interest income (management cited $1.8 million net gain). One sale included financing provided by the bank; the other was a cash sale.
- December quarter non-interest income was helped by LC fee income, which management cautions may be hard to exactly replicate in 2026, but they view Q4 ex-OREO gain as a reasonable baseline.
- Q1 operating expense quarterly guide is roughly $21.5 to $22.5 million, implying full-year non-interest expense growth in the mid- to high-single-digit range; management expects expenses to grow through the year.
- Share repurchases were nominal in October and none in the quarter; management says buybacks are unlikely until balance sheet needs for loan growth and deposit stability are clearer.
- M&A appetite is selective. Management reviewed potential deals but finds current pricing unattractive and will remain opportunistic.
Full Transcript
Jamie, Conference Call Operator: Good afternoon, everyone, and welcome to the Preferred Bank Q4 2025 earnings conference call. All participants will be in a listen-only mode. Should you need assistance, please signal a conference specialist by pressing the star key followed by zero. After today’s presentation, there will be an opportunity to ask questions. To ask a question, you may press star and then one on a touch-tone telephone. To withdraw your questions, you may press star and two. Please also note today’s event is being recorded. I would now like to turn the conference call over to Jeffrey Haas with Financial Profiles. Sir, please go ahead.
Jeffrey Haas, Financial Profiles Representative, Financial Profiles: Thank you, Jamie. Hello, everyone, and thank you for joining us to discuss Preferred Bank’s financial results for the fourth quarter ended December 31st, 2025. With me today from management are Chairman and CEO Li Yu, President and Chief Operating Officer Wellington Chen, Chief Financial Officer Edward Czajka, Chief Risk Officer Nick Pi, and Deputy Chief Operating Officer Johnny Hsu. Management will provide a brief summary of the results, and then we will open up the call to your questions. During the course of this conference call, statements made by management may include forward-looking statements within the meaning of the Private Securities Litigation Reform Act of 1995. Such forward-looking statements are based upon specific assumptions that may or may not prove correct.
Forward-looking statements are also subject to known and unknown risks, uncertainties, and other factors relating to Preferred Bank’s operations and business environment, all of which are difficult to predict, and many of which are beyond the control of Preferred Bank. For a detailed description of these risks and uncertainties, please refer to the SEC-required documents the Bank files with the Federal Deposit Insurance Corporation, or FDIC. If any of these uncertainties materialize or any of these assumptions prove incorrect, Preferred Bank’s results could differ materially from its expectations as set forth in these statements. Preferred Bank assumes no obligation to update such forward-looking statements. At this time, I’d like to turn the call over to Mr. Li Yu. Please go ahead.
Li Yu, Chairman and CEO, Preferred Bank: Thank you. Thank you, ladies and gentlemen. Thank you for joining the earnings conference. I’m very pleased to report that for the fourth quarter of 2025, the net income of the Bank was $34.8 million, or $2.79 a share. For the full year, the Bank earned $434 million, or $10.41 a share. Our profitability for the year is believed to be among the top tier of the banking industry. Our net interest margin for the fourth quarter declined from the third quarter. The principal reason for the decline was federal rate cuts. With a 70% floating-rate loan portfolio, the rate cut did reduce our loan interest income. However, the cost of deposits remained stubbornly high. In fact, many analysts have reported that between quarters, the banking industry, the entire banking industry, cost of deposits may have increased slightly.
Looking forward, we’re seeing that our loan demand is getting stronger. For the quarter, our total loan growth is $182 million, or over 12%. Deposit growth was $115 million, or 7.4%. The year-to-date for loan and deposit growth is 7.3% or 7.2%, respectively. During the quarter, we have sold two large pieces of our OREO, resulting in a net gain of $1.8 million between the two. The income was reported in the section of non-interest income. The sale that resulted in loss was reported in the non-interest expense section. Why? This is based on the current principles of generally accepted accounting principles. For the quarter, non-performing assets declined slightly. However, criticized assets did increase $97 million. Principally, this is due to that we placed a large nine-loan relationship into the classified status. For the quarter, loan loss provision was $4.3 million.
Most economists are forecasting 2026 to be a year of relative growth and stability. Our customers’ feelings are also indicating they have an improved outlook for 2026. Barring any sudden changes in government policy or directions, which we just had one, we’re hoping 2026 to be more of a growth year for Preferred Bank. Thank you very much. I will answer your questions.
Jamie, Conference Call Operator: Ladies and gentlemen, at this time, we’ll begin the question-and-answer session. To ask a question, you may press star and then one using a touch-tone telephone. To withdraw your questions, you may press star and two. If you are using a speakerphone, we do ask that you please pick up the handset prior to pressing the keys to ensure the best sound quality. To get on that, it’s star and then one to join the question queue. We’ll pause momentarily to assemble the roster. And our first question today comes from Matthew Clark from Piper Sandler. Please go ahead with your question.
Matthew Clark, Analyst, Piper Sandler: Hey, good morning, everyone.
Edward Czajka, Chief Financial Officer, Preferred Bank: Good morning.
Matthew Clark, Analyst, Piper Sandler: Just want to start on the margin and get some visibility there, at least in the near term. Do you have the spot rate on deposits, spot rate on deposit costs at the end of the year or even the month of December, and then also the average margin in the month of December?
Edward Czajka, Chief Financial Officer, Preferred Bank: Hi, Matthew. This is Ed. The margin for December was 3.66%, slightly below that of the quarter. That was with the full effect of the December rate cut. Total cost of deposits was 3.17% for the month of December. So that’s coming down about six, seven basis points a month.
Matthew Clark, Analyst, Piper Sandler: Okay. Yeah, and that’s where I was headed. Deposit beta this quarter looks to be about 40% on interest-bearing. Sounds like things are still pretty competitive. What are your thoughts on the beta, the deposit beta going forward, assuming we get maybe one or two rate cuts this year?
Edward Czajka, Chief Financial Officer, Preferred Bank: It’s going to depend on a number of things. Obviously, the rate cuts will play a big key role. But the other thing that Mr. Yu alluded to is the competition for deposits still remains very, very strong. So I would foresee a similar pattern in terms of about five or six basis points a month as we have CDs rolling off and then coming on at lower rates. They’re just not coming on at rates that we thought we would see at this point, given what’s happened with the Federal Reserve.
Matthew Clark, Analyst, Piper Sandler: Okay. Got it. And it sounds like loan growth, you expect to maybe step up a little bit this year from the 7.3% pace last year. I would assume you’re going to try to grow deposits at a similar pace. Is that fair, just given your loan-to-deposit ratio?
Edward Czajka, Chief Financial Officer, Preferred Bank: That’s a fair statement. Yeah.
Matthew Clark, Analyst, Piper Sandler: Okay. And then just last one for me on expenses, the run rate. A little noise this quarter, but stripping that out, a little better than expected on comp. How should we think about the run rate here in the first quarter with some seasonality?
Edward Czajka, Chief Financial Officer, Preferred Bank: I’m going to forecast probably somewhere in the neighborhood of 22, maybe slightly below that, but 21.5 to 22 should be about right.
Li Yu, Chairman and CEO, Preferred Bank: I wanted to use a 21.5 to 22.5.
Edward Czajka, Chief Financial Officer, Preferred Bank: Okay. Bigger margin.
Matthew Clark, Analyst, Piper Sandler: I like it. Okay. Thank you.
Edward Czajka, Chief Financial Officer, Preferred Bank: I’ll get it done. Yeah. Yeah.
Jamie, Conference Call Operator: Our next question comes from Gary Tenner from D.A. Davidson. Please go ahead with your question.
Nick Pi, Chief Risk Officer, Preferred Bank: Thanks. Good morning. Just a quick follow-up on the deposit side of things. If you could kind of update us on the CD maturities in the first quarter and kind of the out-and-in rate that you expect?
Edward Czajka, Chief Financial Officer, Preferred Bank: Sure. So we have about $1.3 billion maturing in Q1 at a weighted average rate of 396. They’re currently coming on right now at about around 370-380 right now on average, Gary.
Nick Pi, Chief Risk Officer, Preferred Bank: I appreciate that. And just out of curiosity, last quarter, when you talked about the CDs maturing in the fourth quarter, they were maturing at 4.1, and you sort of posited kind of new CDs in the mid to high threes. So it sounds like that number was towards the upper end of that repricing range in the fourth quarter. Is that kind of what played out?
Edward Czajka, Chief Financial Officer, Preferred Bank: Yes. As we said, we would have expected CD rates, market rates to come down a little more than they did, given the Federal Reserve’s actions.
Nick Pi, Chief Risk Officer, Preferred Bank: Okay. And that 70% floating-rate portfolio now, have you, with the fourth quarter cuts, did you clear through any significant floors that changed the number?
Edward Czajka, Chief Financial Officer, Preferred Bank: It probably only affected about $150-$200 million of the loan book. Right now, we have about 45% of the floors are in the 0-100 basis point bucket in terms of their protection effectiveness.
Nick Pi, Chief Risk Officer, Preferred Bank: Great. Thank you.
Jamie, Conference Call Operator: Our next question comes from Andrew Terrell from Stephens. Please go ahead with your question.
Matthew Clark, Analyst, Piper Sandler: Hey, good morning.
Edward Czajka, Chief Financial Officer, Preferred Bank: Hey, Andrew.
Matthew Clark, Analyst, Piper Sandler: Hey. I was hoping to just follow up on the time deposit competition commentary. I was hoping you could just maybe expand upon that a bit more and just sounds like high threes for you guys right now. Is that generally in line with your competition? Are you trying to price ahead, price below to pick up more deposits? Just curious where you’re at versus the market, kind of your strategy, your expectations there.
Edward Czajka, Chief Financial Officer, Preferred Bank: I think the challenge is kind of walking the tightrope, right? We want to bring deposit costs in. That’s really a big goal of ours. But at the same time, we want to grow the deposits. So that’s been kind of a challenge. What we’ve seen in the marketplace is not only local competition still being fairly stiff, but we’re seeing some large money center banks still out there promoting CDs right in our marketplace. And when you have those guys doing that type of thing, it makes it more challenging for us because of their size.
Matthew Clark, Analyst, Piper Sandler: Yep. No, makes total sense. On the downgraded loan this quarter, the $123 million relationship, I appreciate all the color you guys put in the release around the LTVs and debt service there that both look pretty good. I was hoping you could talk a little bit more about the pathway to curing this, what the timeline and outcome looks like as you see the picture today. And then also just, this is a pretty large relationship, 2% of the loan book. Is this the largest relationship at the bank, or are there other similarly large relationships that you guys have?
Li Yu, Chairman and CEO, Preferred Bank: I want to answer that. You. I believe this is one of the large relationships for the bank at this moment.
Edward Czajka, Chief Financial Officer, Preferred Bank: In terms of the workout, it’s a little bit early to be able to tell what the future is going to hold for this particular relationship. There are several options that we’ve utilized in the past. We’ve sold notes, we’ve foreclosed and taken back property, etc., but.
Li Yu, Chairman and CEO, Preferred Bank: Andrew, our first choice, obviously, we know these customers. They are late in payments and they are having problems with other banks, but the principle is that because these properties still have value, very positive value in their eyes. The information we have is they’re working very hard, trying to finance it out from other alternatives. The bank is going to be waiting for them to get these things, these procedures done. In case if they are not able to continue the loan and that we have to go through the foreclosure procedure, we are not going to be shy away from that. We’ll do it immediately. The current marketplace is pretty reasonable, I mean, as regard to pay for these properties at this point in time.
So in other words, we’re not seeing the market situation in 2008, 2009, 2011, 2012 that you have the bottom fall off. It’s not happening. Market has been very stable. So it’s a matter of time to resolve these things as these loans are basically fundamentally, well, reasonably underwritten.
Matthew Clark, Analyst, Piper Sandler: Great. Okay. I appreciate all the color there and thanks for the questions.
Jamie, Conference Call Operator: Our next question comes from Tim Coffey from Janney. Please go ahead with your question.
Tim Coffey, Analyst, Janney: Great. Thank you. Good morning, everybody. Mr. Yu, as we start looking at loan growth for the next year, what do you think are the best opportunities for growth? What loan product?
Li Yu, Chairman and CEO, Preferred Bank: Basically, we still a sort of like a commercial market that basically commercial real estate and the C&I loans. We see both sides’ demand is reviving a bit right now. In fact, internally, we’re budgeting a higher number than previous year right now. So it’s still very early to tell, as you know, that not only we have the normal economy, but we do have a very active government that changes, I mean, practices from time to time. So it will be if we venture in some way so that everything is smooth, no change, we’ll go this way, I think that’s an overly optimistic situation too. But I’d like to say that we’re budgeting a higher number than last year for our upcoming years, this year.
Tim Coffey, Analyst, Janney: Okay. Great. Thanks. And then, Ed, looking at non-interest expenses for the full year in terms of the growth rate, is kind of a mid to high single digit number reasonable?
Edward Czajka, Chief Financial Officer, Preferred Bank: Yes. Yeah. That’s about what we’re looking at is, yeah, right in that neighborhood, Tim. You’re spot on.
Tim Coffey, Analyst, Janney: Okay. And then just kind of general thoughts on share repurchases for this year?
Li Yu, Chairman and CEO, Preferred Bank: We just have to see what the total picture is. First of all, obviously, we have to see what our loan growth is, okay, during the year. In all possibility, all funds will have to be reserved for loan growth. Secondly, that deposit situation will also be very important. When we have the balance sheet all fixed, then we probably will turn around to see whether there is additional availability for purchases or repurchases. I would say that the situation is not quite as, how should I say, conducive to repurchases as last year.
Tim Coffey, Analyst, Janney: Right. Sure. Absolutely. And then I guess I want to kind of make sure I dot the i and cross the t’s on the classified loans. I mean, given the uniqueness of this situation, what does the timeline for disposition look like? Or how does this play out?
Li Yu, Chairman and CEO, Preferred Bank: Well, first of all, that the amount of relationship, there are several different loans. Some of them have an earlier maturity date than the other one. So first of all, obviously, we will be giving our customer the opportunity, okay, of that particular relationship, the opportunity of resolving these matters to our satisfaction. And then the legal procedure will start if they fail to do that. And I would say that internally, we will say that probably we will have a majority of a good portion of all taken care of. I shouldn’t say taken care of, all resolved sometime within two quarters. Nick, do you think I’m too optimistic or what’s your decline to say?
Nick Pi, Chief Risk Officer, Preferred Bank: That’s the goal where we’re heading, Mr. Yu. Yes. Of course, we will try to solve the issues.
Li Yu, Chairman and CEO, Preferred Bank: I think we’ll give ourselves so much time to get a lot of the work done.
Tim Coffey, Analyst, Janney: Okay. Great. That’s very helpful. Those are my questions. Thank you.
Li Yu, Chairman and CEO, Preferred Bank: Thank you.
Jamie, Conference Call Operator: Our next question comes from Liam Cahill from Raymond James. Please go ahead with your question.
Hi. Good morning, everyone. This is Liam on for David Feaster. There’s been a good amount of discussion surrounding the classified downgrade, but I did just want to touch on the well-secured multifamily loan that was downgraded to non-accrual. Did you have the credit metrics for that loan, and is there anything in particular we should take into account?
Nick Pi, Chief Risk Officer, Preferred Bank: You mean that the 19.4?
Edward Czajka, Chief Financial Officer, Preferred Bank: Yeah. 19.4.
Nick Pi, Chief Risk Officer, Preferred Bank: Okay. Can you have the numbers one day?
Tim Coffey, Analyst, Janney: Okay. So these are the credit metrics. Yeah.
Nick Pi, Chief Risk Officer, Preferred Bank: Right. So based on the most updated appraisal we conducted after we classified this loan, and the value came out even higher than the previous one. So with everything in mind.
Tim Coffey, Analyst, Janney: No. How much is the value? $48 million?
Nick Pi, Chief Risk Officer, Preferred Bank: It’s $49 million.
Tim Coffey, Analyst, Janney: $49 million.
Nick Pi, Chief Risk Officer, Preferred Bank: $49 million, and our loan is 19.5.
That’s very helpful.
Li Yu, Chairman and CEO, Preferred Bank: At the end, there is one loan that we like to think that the borrower will want to find a way to resolve that, okay, because it’s too much difference between assume the market value is the appraisal value. There’s too much difference between those two numbers.
No. Thank you very much, and then just one more from me. For fee income in 2026, would the 4Q number, excluding the one-time OREO impact, be a good baseline?
Edward Czajka, Chief Financial Officer, Preferred Bank: I think it would be, yes. I think that’s probably a good baseline. Maybe slightly below that. The LC fee income was very, very strong this year. Not sure we can exactly reproduce that number, but I’m sure we’ll get close to that. So I would take that non-interest income without the gain on sale of other real estate.
Thank you very much. I’ll step back.
Jamie, Conference Call Operator: Once again, if you would like to ask a question, please press star and then one. To withdraw your questions, you may press star and two. Again, that is star and then one to join the question queue. Our next question is a follow-up from Matthew Clark from Piper Sandler. Please go ahead with your question.
Matthew Clark, Analyst, Piper Sandler: Hey, thanks. Just want to clarify your expense guidance for this year. Does that exclude OREO costs because the midpoint of your guide for the first quarter of $22 million annualizes obviously to $88 million, would be below this past year and would imply some significant growth after the first quarter? Just want to make sure we’re on the same page.
Edward Czajka, Chief Financial Officer, Preferred Bank: Yes. It will grow through the year. There’s no question about it. Yeah. And we still have a couple of small OREO properties, so there will be some expense related to those as well.
Matthew Clark, Analyst, Piper Sandler: Okay. And then did you repurchase any shares this quarter?
Li Yu, Chairman and CEO, Preferred Bank: No. That’s just what Andrew?
Matthew Clark, Analyst, Piper Sandler: Okay.
Edward Czajka, Chief Financial Officer, Preferred Bank: Yeah. We did in October, but it was a nominal amount, Matthew, so.
Matthew Clark, Analyst, Piper Sandler: Okay, and then just last one for me on M&A. Just wanted to get an update on your appetite for M&A to the extent you see some opportunities with M&A expected to accelerate this year.
Li Yu, Chairman and CEO, Preferred Bank: Yeah. There are a few deals that have been brought to us that we end up taking a look at. As you know, that has not been our main effort in M&As. But there are a couple of deals we did take a look at, and probably the pricing structure required is still not to our satisfaction. So we’ll continue to look at it. We know that there may be another one or two coming up, but we’ll take a look at it.
Matthew Clark, Analyst, Piper Sandler: Okay. Great. Thanks again.
Jamie, Conference Call Operator: Our next question comes from Arif Inayatullah from Cygnus Capital. Please go ahead with your question.
Yes. Hello. Thanks for taking my questions. My first question is really more just to clarify the diluted EPS of $2.79. If I’m reading it correctly, it looks like your gain on sale of the OREO properties is included in that EPS, which after-tax was about $0.20. Just want to confirm, am I reading that correctly, that after that gain, the EPS was $2.59?
Edward Czajka, Chief Financial Officer, Preferred Bank: That sounds about right. Yes.
Okay. Appreciate it.
Li Yu, Chairman and CEO, Preferred Bank: $1.8 million after equal to a 3.6.
3.6. 3.6.
Edward Czajka, Chief Financial Officer, Preferred Bank: 3.6. Yeah. So that’s about right.
Okay. Thank you. And then my next question is, on those OREO properties you sold in the fourth quarter, did you provide any financing to the buyers, or have you completely absolved yourself of any exposure to those properties going forward?
Li Yu, Chairman and CEO, Preferred Bank: One of them has, we provide financing, okay. The other one’s our cash sale.
Correct. Got it. So you still have a loan to one of those properties going forward?
Yes. Much smaller loan.
Got it. Okay. And then the last question I had was with respect to the increase in the classified loans. Can you please confirm the $121 million of loans that are with the relationship where there’s litigation going on with other banks? I’m assuming you’re referring to Western Alliance and Zions. Are those loans paying current? Are they performing or no?
As far as I know, we don’t know exactly the status of the other two banks’ loans, and we don’t have any idea about their structures. All I know is that we are in the first position, dealer-to-trust lender. So we’re fully secured by a problem.
But are those loans being? Are you receiving current interest and debt service on those loans currently?
Yes. We have been receiving the payments, but it’s been slowed down.
It’s been slowed down.
Yes.
That’s correct.
Yeah.
Sorry. So they’re behind in interest service or they’re current in interest service? I’m not following the question.
Generally, they’re behind interest services.
Okay.
That’s one of the primary reasons that’s the weakness of the loan that we classified.
Thanks for clarifying. I’m just really more trying to understand the context of a 1.14 times debt coverage ratio if the loan’s not paying.
Because of the guarantors getting involved with litigation with other banks. So probably they’re not 100% using all the cash flow from those properties to make the payment to our bank at this time. Yeah.
Got it. Okay. That’s helpful. And then just to finalize the question on this topic, given where the allowance for credit loss had stood at the end of the quarter or end of the year and your increase in the provision for credit loss, what gives you comfort that you’re adequately reserved and we don’t get surprised, as we did this quarter, with significant increase in non-performing and criticized loans? How recent of a scrub have you done of your portfolio to kind of give you that comfort that you’re adequately reserved?
All these loans under this legislature, we go with because we’re substandard in care, we go with the Fed’s 3.4K analysis. As the release mentioned about the loan-to-value, it’s around 65%. There’s no specific reserve on this loan. However, the $4.3 million provision for this quarter was mainly the result of a combination of many manufacturers, including the loan growth, including other specific reserve for some of the loans. Just to give you an example, we fully reserved this relationship too under unsecured credit. Also based on Q factor. Due to the movement of all this relationship and increase of the criticized loans, we have adjusted our Q factor side, especially on the credit trend area. We increased five basis points of the entire real estate segment.
So based on the component of our reserve at this moment, our Q factors are actually counting on 42.5% of the entire reserve. So we do believe the reserve should be more than enough to cover our credit situation.
Got it. Okay. Thank you very much.
Jamie, Conference Call Operator: Ladies and gentlemen, with that, we’ve reached the end of today’s question and answer session. I’d like to turn the floor back over to management for any closing remarks.
Li Yu, Chairman and CEO, Preferred Bank: Thank you very much that for now that before we have little challenges and try to within the next six months period of time try to resolve these issues on the credit side. Overall, everything remains the same. We’re still the same company. We’re still structured with a normal operation, normal matrix, and so on. We sort of like still look forward to 2026. Thank you very much.
Jamie, Conference Call Operator: With that, ladies and gentlemen, we’ll conclude today’s conference call and presentation. Thank you for joining. You may now disconnect your lines.